Argument, Debate, Discussion, and some things that don't work...

in #criticalthinking7 years ago (edited)


It seems like it might be time to write about critical thinking again. That is my big thing that I like to write about every so often. I've realized I likely cannot change the world by myself. I can perhaps help the future world by making people more aware of critical thinking. We have a lot of new people so some of you may find value in what I write about here.

Mentioning critical thinking is not at all telling you how to think, and what to believe. Instead it is simply tools you can use to have an intellectual discussion. It is the tools you can use to help you identify when people are using common tactics, and fallacies to try to get people to agree, or become submissive. Critical thinking is useful for helping us to see past common engagements that are purely designed to manipulate us emotionally rather than rationally.

Critical thinking is not something we can ever master. You can only get better at it by exercising it, practicing, and occasionally looking up things that might help you get better and better at it. I do this myself.

Here are a few resources that can be useful:

I chose this as the proverbial windmill at which I tilt (Don Quixote reference for those unfamiliar). I see a lack of understanding of critical thinking being used against the population on a regular basis. It is rampant how many fallacies are uttered on a daily basis, and almost all of them manipulate us via emotions.

Source: Pinterest

I am now going to go over a few of the ones I see used most often, and I have written posts about this before.

Appeal To Authority Fallacy


The appeal to authority is a very popular fallacy that is used more than most of the other fallacies. "Well known person X says Y is true, therefore it must be". Often X is not even an expert on Y. Often they are just an actor or other field that has nothing to do with Y. Yet because they are a celebrity it tends to sway people. Now here is the kicker. Let's say X is an expert on Y. That still doesn't mean it should be treated as true without question. Instead in those cases it should be viewed as more a high probability that it is true rather than an absolute. There is still a chance it is false. This is why people still buy lottery tickets. It is a high probability you will not win the jackpot, but there is still a glimmer of hope, so people buy tickets. The appeal to authority actually is a big red flag once you are familiar with critical thinking. It is a way to stop people from asking questions. Once, you quiz yourself and get more and more familiar with critical thinking this fallacy is one of the easiest to spot.

Appeal to Tradition Fallacy


This is the famous "It has always been done like this in the past, so we should continue to do so." Simply because something was done in the past does not mean it was the best choice, or even the right choice. All it tells you is that it was a choice people made. This ties closely in with "those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it". Well this is willfully repeating history. An appeal to tradition can be viewed as knowing their history but advocating for repeating it anyway.

Appeal to Popularity Fallacy


This is appealing to the number of people supporting an idea, choice, etc. This is where someone chooses to use the number of people that believe a thing as being proof a thing is true. I'd say the "world being flat" was and example of this, yet strangely (to me) we have a resurgence of flat Earthers, even here on steemit, so that is not as good an example as it once was. Religion would be a good one. Why religion? Because, the quantity of people following religions changes over time. Which religion has the most followers in the world changes. So if this changes and which one LEADS by population changes then does this mean the TRUTH and FACTS change? For if popularity matters then "Religion X must be true because it has the most people believing in it" could not be true if by that logic in time "Religion Y has more people believing in it" as suddenly that one would be TRUE. Yet if the original statement were true then it could not change. Thus, popularity is not proof. This is why appeals to popularity are a fallacy.

Ad Hominem


This is not so much a logical fallacy, but it is something you become aware of in critical thinking and it is a common tactic. This is the process where a person attacks or implies ignorance in their opponent in a discussion, debate, argument. It is the "you either believe me or you are a fool" type situation, but that quote there is actually also a false dichotomy. Generally an outright ad hominem is simply stated as "you are just ignorant", "I'm sorry but you are a cuck", all the way up to the blatant insults like "fucking idiot". They prove nothing. In fact they can pretty much derail any chance of convincing anyone of anything. The only purpose they really serve is stroking the person that must use them ego. They sometimes are the result of a person being frustrated they cannot convince the person. Yet discussion and changing minds is not an easy thing, if you expect instant change and you don't get it and thus resort to ad hominems then it is into a mirror you should be looking as you speak them, not towards the other person. We cannot expect instant change. This is especially true of big concepts. People need time to think about it. It is rare to see someone agree with you and change their mind. It does happen but, not often. More often what happens is you planted seeds in them, and they planted seeds in you. Both of you need to go off and think. Change can happen, though usually it is long after that discussion.

False Dichotomy


This is the framing a situation as though there are only two choices. Typically there are a lot more choices than two. Famous ones such as "you are either with us, or against us". No, perhaps I am not with anyone. Perhaps I am with both of you. In debates and discussions and the "news" it is often framed as "you either agree that X is the case or you are a fool." There are typically a lot more choices than that. Yet, this is a favored tactic.

Red Herring


This is the tactic where in a discussion someone will say something along the lines of "well what about X." when X may have nothing to do with the debate, or be an extreme side track. It is more about diverting the discussion when it is not going someones way. The bigger and flashier they can make X the more likely it is to be good for distracting someone. As you learn about this, you'll likely notice this getting used quite a bit. If a person is getting backed into the proverbial corner on an issue this is a tactic they will often use to try to get out of that corner.

Absolutes


I have a pet peeve with the casual usage of absolutes. I zero in on them like a bee to honey. If someone tosses absolutes around I often won't even bother with the rest of what they said. This can be a flaw on my part, and has been a few times, but usually it is not. You see absolutes are rarely true. There are cases where they are true. The problem with an absolute is that it only takes a single exception for the absolute to be false. Common keywords for absolutes are ALL, EVERY, NEVER, ALWAYS, NONE, etc. For example: One I encountered today that inspired this post "You do realize every single social change came about through violent means, right?". First that is an absolute, and it is easy to think of examples around us happening every day that don't happen via violence. Yet it is also an appeal to tradition as described above. I pointed this out and was met with ad hominems, and false dichotomies. In reality they were ad hominems veiled in a false dichotomy. I either agreed with them or I was ad hominem...

It was that encounter that made me realize that maybe it was once again time to write a post like this.

If you want to change a mind, you should remain civil. If you choose to resort to ad hominems (aka insults and belittling) then odds are you've already failed in any attempt to change a mind. People will either become defensive of themselves rather than what you were discussing (ad hominem acting as a red herring) or they'll stop talking to you. Either way, nothing was settled. You don't prove anything, and perhaps you inflate your own ego some, but you also could be blind to the opportunity that comes from civil discussions with those who disagree with you. That can be one of the most rewarding of experiences, though YES it is challenging, and NO you should not expect immediate agreement. Big ideas require deliberation and thought upon the things that are discussed. Change may happen, and it is likely if it does that you will not be there to see it. Yet, is this about getting a trophy, or is it about changing minds?

EDIT: Update. The person just edited their comment, the original is still on the blockchain if you need verification and changed it to "You do realize every single major soical or political change (slavery, breaking free from overlord, civil rights, etc) came about through violent means, right?" It is still false. Rosa Parks was about civil rights... and it was not violent. :)

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Logic is one of the three pillars of the Trivium.

At its core logic is how one processes and stages information for delivery.

Ancients understood that logic was what separates slaves from free men, and peasants from kings.

It's an uphill battle. People are not taught critical thinking in school and only a few are taught at home. So to trying to communicate to someone about critical thinking can be like introducing a foreign concept.

Teaching people this crazy notion of critical thinking, don't you know, "you're either with us, or you're with the enemy"?

Yep, it is precisely because it is not taught in schools that I decided it is a positive thing I can try to do that might actually make a change. The borders of it are taught in math and physics, but those are only mostly logical operators for mathematical proofs. The other parts you might get a shallow exposure to in a Public Speaking and Critical Thinking type class in college, but that totally depends upon how good an instructor you have.

In reality, most of us stumble upon it and wonder why it isn't be taught extensively. I believe it should be taught starting at a very young age right along with math, reading, writing, history, etc.

Spot on. Trouble is when it's adults you're trying to educate, they have to now want to learn or you kinda have to sneak up on them and peak their curiosity.

Keep up the cause

Yes, I do think most of the things truly worth doing are not necessarily easy. This certainly is not easy.

I look at it like seeds. They may not want to listen to me now. They may adamantly refuse to listen. A year leader I might see them speaking to other people and "getting it" and speaking as if they were now in my shoes. They likely don't even remember their conversation with me, but that seed obviously grew into something.

I am 100% certain seeds other people have planted in me have grown and changed me.

The US school system is modeled after the Prussian school system. Said system was designed to pump out mediocre citizens with similar levels of understanding and education, and to make them easily persuaded and controlled.

Yep, I mention this fact a lot in some of my other posts. Not just the U.S. system. The majority of the education systems around the world are modeled upon the Prussian Education System. It makes me wonder if that is why there seemed to be a lot more critical thinking and deep philosophy prior to its inception.

I have not studied other countries' school systems so I couldn't comment on those. I think your speculation holds some weight. The model holds linear thought as king and puts little to no emphasis on the arts.

I've looked into a lot of other education systems. Most of them follow a similar model. There are some exceptions though, and some of those are kicking our ass in terms of actual education results.

I'm not sure how this skill could be nailed.

Person could have well developed brain and as a result he can think critically, or a persond couldn't have a brain with all following results

Critical thinking is a tool. You can have a brilliant mind, and still never have encountered these tools. Furthermore, they truly cannot be mastered and all of us make logical fallacies from time to time. All we can do is get better at recognizing and avoiding them with continued practice. We will make mistakes.

we should always ask ourselves: What are we seeing? is it true or somebody tries to slightly change our reality with fake "facts", lie, or just with hiding something important

Owls are not what they seem

I tend to think of people who engage in arguments consisting of these logical fallacies as the equivalent of sports fans. Nothing wrong with arguing about who is the best team, but in the end, it is one entire level of involvement removed from actually playing a sport.

You can be a complete expert on team stats, trivia, tactics and history, but that unfortunately doesn't mean you actually know squat about sports. Similarly, those who try to back up their logic by resorting to one of the logical fallacies you mentioned understand as much about thinking and logic as sports fans know about sports.

Sadly, sports fans are often more rabid about the game than the athletes actually are. Athletes share a sense of camaraderie, because they all understand that in the end, athletics is about you against yourself no matter what type of sport it is. Games are won on the practice field, and the most intractable foe will be your fear and your laziness. Self honesty and introspection is the price you must pay to be good.

Similarly, none of us have to know anything about formal philosophy to understand philosophy, because philosophy is intuitive. And until you start to really try to understand yourself and reality, reading philosophy texts does about as much good as memorizing plays before you try to play a sport.

Great post dwinblood!

Similarly, none of us have to know anything about formal philosophy to understand philosophy, because philosophy is intuitive.

At it's core it simply means love of knowledge, love of learning, love of thinking. :)

Thus why I consider myself a philosopher. One who is often wrong.

Philo - meaning love of, like necrophile means love of the dead, necro.

Sophy - Sophia, wisdom in Greek.

So love of wisdom.

But that's the journey, isn't it? Can't be done by watching it on the couch....

Peace brother!

Nice post..I only have one remark, and that is that calling someone a "cuck" is the best argument ever. Just wanted to mention that :)

once again you've written some of the "jumble" in my head into a great cohesive post! It also fits perfectly with what I commented on your "capitalism-socialism-marxism-communism-in-my-words" post.

This is why I homeschooled. My kids now have the ability to think, and know how to learn.

I recently was graced with a comment from a flat Earther regarding a post on Mars colonization. I entered into debate with a few questions intended to elicit critical thinking. This offer was declined, and more circular thinking was the response.

I then let loose both barrels of questions that left no doubt on being answered as to the possibility that the Earth is flat, and was rewarded with a complete ignorance of my reply, and ad hominem.

At some point, it becomes obvious that there are people incapable of thinking in anyway that isn't just following a particular herd. That is the point to just decline to continue to participate, and spend your effort on people that are capable of actual thought.

Thanks for pointing out that critical thinking is the basis for reasonable debate, and thus making sound decisions!

At some point, it becomes obvious that there are people incapable of thinking in anyway that isn't just following a particular herd. That is the point to just decline to continue to participate, and spend your effort on people that are capable of actual thought.

I've found a moment of hope I can share. I can tell you I've now witnessed on more than one occasion such people acting just like you said. I'd encounter them months or years later to hear them debating with someone else and getting it. They then understood.

I've come to realize that in these exchanges that can be frustrating that just because you didn't appear to convince them of something doesn't mean you did not plant seeds that will grow over time and do just that.

This makes it worth it I think regardless of whether I get the instant gratification of them changing their mind.

Well, that is encouraging news. Unfortunately, I saw no sign that the flat Earther even bothered to read my comment. Time will tell, I suppose, and it isn't important to me that I somehow get credit, or anything.

I just want people to reason. A lot.

That is a nice overview about the basic rules of discussion or the things you should be wary of engaging in it.

I actually forgot that there are established words for "False Dichotomy" and "Red Herring". I think we all herring a little from time to time, though ;).

On the topic I can give you Sejong again who brought social change by inventing an alphabet. I think violent change should be an option in the back of ones head but never a priority.
Oh and we have good ol' Bismarck you could argue he brought in social laws to appease the workers, but it was a non-violent change per definition.
Reunification of West and East Germany - another good example for a non-violent change.

Wish Steem had a function so I could pin articles like this to my profile.. Well, I can Resteem at least :D

I think we all herring a little from time to time, though ;).

We likely all do each of these things from to time. We make mistakes. Thus, why I don't think this could ever truly be mastered. We can just get better.

and be wary of it, true true

Not to mention the Icelandic revolution as of recent where they jailed and deported all corrupt bankers and politcians, set up an economy based on renewable resources, etc, all acheived peaceably. ;)

Mentioning critical thinking is not at all telling you how to think, and what to believe. Instead it is simply tools you can use to have an intellectual discussion. It is the tools you can use to help you identify when people are using common tactics, and fallacies to try to get people to agree, or become submissive

LOL. I have had that thrown at me before
Critical thinking is just another propaganda mode

I just laughed my way through the first twenty minutes of Idiocracy...this is a nice segue back into Steemit thinking; it may duplicate some other resources, but i will add it to the Critical Thinking index

seems like we all need to start using the #criticalthinking tag, too...I had been using analysis

Idiocracy is GREAT, is funny, and then it is terrifying and at times seems almost prophetic.

I tend to regard Hope and Change and Plants crave electrolytes as the same phrase

LOL. Hope it's got what the change needs.

Since I made that Brave New World post, it seems like a lot of the info crossing my plate has to do with "Bread and Circuses" approaches to tyranny, with a little "Dumbing Down" policy thrown in; center-of-focus effect, maybe, it just seems strange

Damn. Moment of Honesty. I have still NEVER read Aldus Huxley's Brave New World, or seen any film adaptation. That is something I've been meaning to remedy, but somehow always get distracted.

I thought it was boring as hell when I had to read it back in HS. Actually reading and paying attention to the intro made a huge difference, andmy excitement levels are different

In HS, 1984 with it's secret police, and Winston's desperate struggle for freedom caught my attention...the pack of doped out drones in BNW did nothing to get my attention

Critical thinking tends to become very rare in our days. I believe that the problem starts with the education that is being provided today. From the early stages of our lives. Very good presentation of many aspects of this subject. I always liked the posts of this style. There is plenty of room for discussion and feedback. Congratulations! Keep up the good work and the quality of your posts.

I was serious about this being a topic I am passionate about. Due to them not really teaching it, all we can really do is try to teach it and spread it ourselves. It is to the benefit of the power structure for us not to know these things it makes us much more susceptible to their propaganda, and all you have to do is take a look around to see that is working.

This is what we have to do but I do not know how easy it can be. When the the +90% of our society sits in front of the TV and accepts everything , when a different voice just ignored in the best case ... This does not mean that we do not have to try change this.

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