RE: THE LOST ART OF MAKING COMMENTS ON STEEMIT - FRIENDS FOREVER ALL YOUR UPVOTES, OKAY?
It is rare that I would choose not to upvote a post of yours (@papa-pepper) straight away. Today I cannot because I am confused by it. Over the last year, I have watched you help so many people from all walks of life. I've interpreted this post, (like many of the other comments that I have read in response to it) as being exactly the opposite.
If we want a better world and a better way of life, it must be for ALL mankind. This is the very essence of Steemit. Or, at least the essence of what it used to be.
The fact that someone who doesn't speak English (as their first language) has worked up the courage to try to communicate on a platform that highly rewards English speaks volumes to me.
When was the last time anyone of us tried to communicate in a language that is foreign to us? Or, tried to read a 4 page document in a foreign language?
I go so far as to use a translator to communicate with people, if they have used a language that I don't understand.
I get frustrated too and I sometimes think it's wasting my time but then I think, does it harm me in any way? No, not really. I can be a little more gracious and patient or I can just ignore them. It's a choice, just like how a comment makes you feel.
Respectfully,
Rebecca Ryan
I understand your point, but in the example cited, the user is pretty much a copy pasta account and they also tried to deceive me by saying that they upvoted and resteemed. Lying is lying in any tongue.
I was certainly not trying to make fun of non native English speakers, but encouraging people to have a bit of fun rather than get angry and frustrated was my point. Steemit is meant to be a living community of real people connecting and interacting, and not a group of money hungry scammers and manipulators attempting to swindle and deceive one another.
I have always been a supporter of other languages, was involved in a group that specifically supported other languages and even created "[Opertaion Translation'(https://steemit.com/translation/@papa-pepper/operation-translation-now-under-construction-what-it-is-and-how-you-can-help) over a year ago, where I offer the opportunity for others to translate any and/or all of posts into another language, post them translation themselves, and then keep all of the payout.
Following someone for a few days and complaining that they do not follow you back or upvote you, or attempting to lie to someone to make them like you has nothing to do with trying to interact in another language.
Yes, I realize that the example that I gave combined a person who did not speak English as their native tongue with some other aspects too, but that was not my intent or goal, to make fun of others.
I thank you for your respectful interaction.
@papa-pepper, I thank you so much for responding to me. I truly "Steemit love you" because you are a good person. It would have been easy for me not to comment, just ignore my confusion, and judge you unfairly as a result.
Papa, you are a leader of the people, just like Eva Peron (with the exceptions of being a man and some dark facial hair) LOL!
All joking aside, this is a lot of pressure for one person to bear. It comes with more responsibility "to always do the right thing" than most folks will ever know.
Thank you again for taking the time to provide clarification.
That's exactly how a descent human being and a great leader should act (in my humble opinion). :)
PS: I am upvoting this post at 100% Please continue to follow me LOL!
you have a beautiful heart, i got trough more texts of you today, and everytime i think beautiful person
You're doing a good job communicating @janine-ariane! Welcome to Steemit.
I was actually joking with @papa-pepper about continuing to follow me because I'm never quite sure (myself) how a comment is going to be interpreted and this is what his post is about. Specifically people asking for others to vote for them when they don't have a relationship established or their comment isn't even relevant to the post. Just so that I am perfectly clear, you should never ask anyone to upvote or follow you. They should take these actions only if they truly like what you have contributed. I have gone to your blog and I am absolutely thrilled to learn that you are from Belgium and that you're a massage therapist. I am too and I own a beauty salon in Canada, but was trained in Swedish style massage which will be similar to any European technique. I hold many professional licenses but am not a hairstylist. You and I have a lot in common. I have followed you for this reason and I will help you where I can. Ask questions and I will do my best to give you accurate answers. Steemit is all about building relationships and trust with other people, just like when you are working on one of your clients. You would never expect a stranger to do something for you, so make it your business to be honest and get to know people. When you have proven that you are consistent and are providing value, people will naturally want to follow and upvote you. Best of luck and thanks for having the courage to reach out. :)
yes i read that you are massage therapist :-) I used to have my own business. but i stopped with it after my mum passed away. Now slowly slowly work again for a friend with a beautifull shop here in the neighbourhood. I do miss to do facials, her daughter does them :-( I loved it, i also used to work with fresh products. Veges and fruit in the beauty cabin, as well as all the essential oils offcourse. Yes i will love to interact with you about this things. Thank you for your answers and thank you for the compliment about my communication skills. I am to curious to keep on walking in the dark want to know the inside and the outside, i only can not always follow it. Thanks for your warm welcome. I now go to sleep with a totally forfilled happy feeling :-) Tomorrow my husband and i planned a day to the family sauna, so i will have something in the evening to talk about :-)
Beautiful! This is exactly what to do. Take us and show us what you do in your life. I can't wait to read about the sauna experience in your country. Generally you want to write about things that light you up and makes your soul shine. Always include at least one picture so that you have a thumbnail show up in the feed. The first picture used will be what people see in their feed and landscape works better than portrait when it comes to the first photo. Have a good sleep and I will watch for your sauna post. :)
Ithink the difference is WHAT they say they can be ever so lovely and goodwilling to you that does not mean they actually read what you wrote. And let be fair, we all write to be read. When you can see someone copied and pasted your text first to translate it in their lanquage and afterwoulds there answer translated in english, you fins some how something of your text back in the sentences. But just saying, you are so good, i follow you i want to see more of you often etcetera? what has that got to do with what you wrote? I understand you that is a no go. Do not take me wrong, i only have to see an old man in a bed and i allready upvote do not have to have any explanation. Like buying of my consience ? I am original dutch married to an englishman but English is still a struggle :-) Please upvote me now? I did go in to your text and made comment... hahah Sorry :-)
Right, the least a comment could do is to have something to do with your post.
I hear what you're saying and we do have to be sensitive to non English speakers. But I knew what he was saying because I've experienced the same thing. There are a ton of people (or bots) out there that basically harass people this way.
I have also experienced a non native English speaker with a comment like that. My gut told me he was not one of the typical scammer/bot and I looked at his profile. I did find him to be a young person from another country trying to get started. I took the time to let him know about the way he commented and to try to avoid doing that. He listened.
Unfortunately with all the scammer/bot comments like these that @papa-pepper is highlighting, too many non native English speakers can see this as an example for them. Most of the time I just ignore those comments, but this posts gives people a chance to let off a little steem. :)
Thank you for taking a few minutes to read, think and then comment @aboutyourbiz.
The fact that people even find themselves needing to let off steam or vent their annoyance says to me that we need a more constructive way to deal with the issues of programmed bots. More specifically how their roles have developed on this platform and whom they target. Based on what I have observed, many target new people with comments that look like they have been awarded something of merit or accomplishment and then softly sell that if they upvote they will be supported or they will be supporting someone even newer than they are. I think this teaches that it's ok to ask for upvotes and follows.
Combine that, with one of the first things that new people learn, which is to do whatever they can to attract the attention of folks who have higher reputation scores and try to get them to take notice. People want to succeed.
Isn't that part of the reason that most people have chosen to comment the way they have on this post?
They have done so because they want to be acknowledged and counted as fully supporting the issues that have been brought forward and/or they are attempting to secure the author's attention so that they might receive an award of SBD for their comment or inclusion in a song that satirically may poke fun at this moment in Steemit's history.
It is human nature to commiserate in negativity with other people as a way to form bonds of friendship.
As a person's reputation increases so does the responsibility of that person to "care" for the community at large, "constructively". This level of responsibility constantly escalates. It never stops and unfortunately it does put the people at "the top" at a different level of socially "expected" behaviour, because their actions and opinions carry so much more weight. These opinions can be really helpful or completely devastating. So I am suggesting that with @papa-pepper's current level of reputation (like it or not) he has moved into another league of expected behaviour as he is a global leader on this platform and as such will be held accountable for his actions in a much different way than others with lower reputations and lower public visibility.
The top is a lonely place to be and it's not all roses. You must think of every single ramification that your words will create and specifically how those words will be interpreted.
Thank you for thinking and being confident enough to start a communication thread about it. :)
If it were up to me, I'd ban the use of bots entirely because I think it would level the playing field and make the game more fair. In my eyes a decision must be made: is Steemit a social platform or is it an artificial construct of bot-ism?
You make salient points.
In my short time on Steemit I don’t know if the bot problem has gotten worse or I’ve just become more aware of it, but it is definitely something that could at some point cause steemit to go the way of myspace. I’m not interested in being social with bots. And I don’t see action being taken to stem the tide. Maybe it’s happening in the background, I don’t know. And I don’t know what that action should be anyway.
I do believe the bots can also influence some ESL people in the way they comment. People try to learn by copying what they see, I’ve done it, like how to fill out some form you have to turn in. That too is human nature.
And let’s be honest, there are ESL scammers/bot programmers too, not just on Steemit. I had an experience with one a couple years back when I had put a burial plot on craigslist for my parents. (They had moved and wanted to sell it and get another one where they moved to) Anyway, I got an email from someone telling me their father had died and they needed to get his body to the US for burial and they would give me more money than I was asking to sell but I needed to give them my bank account number.
As to the reputation responsibility you have a valid point. I see it just a little differently though. (Think 3 blind men trying to describe an elephant by feel, different perspective). I agree that as your reputation grows so does your responsibility to lead by example. The trouble is as your reputation grows you don’t become more saintly or less human. You’re still you, human, and people make mistakes.
I’m still not convinced @papa-pepper made a mistake with this post, but I do see how someone could think he did. And while I’m not willing to hold him to a standard of perfection in posting, which is what this ultimately leads to by definition:
I am going to watch his response when someone diplomatically draws his attention to a possible issue just like you did. I believe this is where he differentiates himself as a leader, in his response. He’s allowed to make mistakes, but how does he handle the repercussions of his actions?
So basically while what you said in the above quote is true, I believe the application should be made to their response to their mistake or perceived mistake, not to expecting no mistakes.
In this case, I don’t think @papa-pepper did anything that would sully his reputation, and I think you may agree based on your response to his response to you.
Let’s hope Steemit stays a social platform and doesn’t become an artificial construct of bot-ism :)
I agree completely. Not one of us is perfect. I have stood by @papa-pepper's side from the beginning and will continue to do so as long as my values continue to align with his or I understand why they don't and I still make the decision to continue.
I think that his post was a true reflection of what was on his mind at the time that he wrote it. It's his opinion, just as I have formed my opinion of his words and why I asked for further clarification because I truly do think that he has everyone's (who is real) best interests at heart. He has always supported the people and gone above and beyond to help and include everyone. He has demonstrated this time and time again, whether it is driving 100's of miles with his family to make sure someone in need had what they needed in times of crisis. He has also worked very hard to support a translation program that he developed to help others who don't speak English as their first language. When I read this particular post, it didn't seem to align with his normal "helping, let's find a solution to a problem" style. I could have easily skipped leaving a comment and simply un-followed him. No one would have been the wiser but it felt to me like a lynch mob was forming as I read through all the comments and I did read about 100 of them. In doing so I quickly realized that one Steemian was attempting to out-do the wit of the next in a bashing-style competition.
It felt like bullying to me and I couldn't sit back and turn a blind eye because that's like saying that I find this behaviour to be an acceptable way to solve a problem that is impacting us all.
I am not perfect and nor is @pappa-pepper. The fact that he chose to upvote my comment to the placement where it currently sits and he acknowledged my original comment at all, tells me that he is currently thinking a little deeper. Thinking is good, blindly following for acceptance is not (in my humble opinion, of course) and I suppose that it high-lights the dangers embedded in "groupthink".
It's dysfunctional decision-making. If we all think bots and scammers are negative, then let's simply get rid of them and move on.
Just catching up on some of this conversation now. What an interesting read and solid discussion to observe. Thanks for having it.
Some of the bots can use interesting language spinners too, which can appear to be from non English speakers. I have never flagged the poor comments, and like to encourage and instruct when I can too. If we can help others, so can they, and then together we can all improve.
I have not checked my feed for a few days it seems (where does the time go?) and found this very intriguing conversation about comments. I too have experienced similar comments from what appears to be a bad translation and thought it was from a bot. I took the time to look at the poster's profile and saw that the comment to me was in fact unique and not one that was repeated on many posts. I gave them an up-vote.
I've also seen the opposite, where I saw the same message in their out-going comments repeated more times than I cared to scroll through. In that case I simply wrote them back asking them to write something a little more personal. In those cases I generally do not get a response. I suspect it's because it is a bot account and nobody even reads anything that is sent to it.
I have much respect (and frankly, I don't know how people like @papa-pepper find the time to do the research) for people who are able to screen so many messages and make reasonable responses to so many comments. That is a skill I doubt I will ever master.
Thanks for adding to the conversation @happyme. There are actually a few really interesting topics wrapped up in this post. All of us "super-early adopters" hold some responsibility to lead and help the community at large to make the "truly" global leap. I hope one day soon, we will have representation from every single country and we can all get there without going crazy in the growth/evolution process.