RE: What does the Bible say about the dead? - Part 1
Dear @truth-be-told,
Ecclesiastes 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.”
First, it is clear from other places in the Bible that this verse cannot mean the dead have absolutely no knowledge. For example, Matthew 25:46 speaks of everlasting consciousness: “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Every person will spend eternity with God in heaven or apart from Him in hell. Each person will have feelings, thoughts, and abilities that exist in eternity.
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”… Revelation 6:9-10
The martyred saints have consciousness, feelings and voices.
In fact, Luke 16:19–31 offers an example of human capabilities in the afterlife. Lazarus is in paradise in eternal joy, while the rich man is in torment in hell (called “Hades”). The rich man has feelings, can talk, and has the ability to remember, think, and reason.
Second, Ecclesiastes 9:5 cannot contradict Ecclesiastes 4:2. There, Solomon states that the dead are “happier than the living.” However, when a person is dead, the opportunities to enjoy things on earth no longer exist.
The key to understanding the statement “the dead know nothing” is found in the theme of the book of Ecclesiastes. Ecclesiastes is written specifically from an earthly perspective. The key phrase, repeated throughout the book, is under the sun, used about thirty times. Solomon is commenting on an earth-bound life, “under the sun,” without God. His conclusion, also repeated throughout the book, is that everything from that perspective is “vanity” or emptiness (Ecclesiastes 1:2).
When a person dies “under the sun,” the earthly perspective, without God, is that it’s over. He is no longer under the sun. There is no more knowledge to give or be given, just a grave to mark his remains. Those who have died have “no further reward” in this life; they no longer have the ability to enjoy life like those who are living. Eventually, “even their name is forgotten” (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
The saying “the dead know nothing” seems to be a negative sentiment, but it is not without a positive message. Solomon encourages his readers to live life to its fullest, knowing life is short. In the end, the fullest life is one that honors God and keeps His ways (Ecclesiastes 12:13–14).
Shalom. Steven @lastdays
Hi @lastdays and thanks for adding to the conversation.
I agree with you, in that in heaven there will be people who will have thoughts, feelings and will praise God. But there's a sequential order of events that need to take place first and I think this is key to understanding how Matthew 25:46 can make sense in light of the previous scriptures I provided that says the dead have no thoughts, etc.
If you read several verses before Matthew 25:46, for example, read from verse 31-46. You'll clearly see that scripture is talking about when Jesus returns. So yes, when He returns the dead in Christ will be resurrected and the living in Christ will be able to have thoughts and feelings, etc.
You see, the sequential order of events presented in the Bible (which all early followers of Christ believed) is as follows:
In regards to the book of Ecclesiastes, the main idea of "under the sun" deals with things of "man" and the writer (believed to be Solomon) is drawing the reader into understanding that following "mans" ways of seeking happiness is futile. Instead, seek for things "above the sun" or "heavenly things." The author continually sees the emptiness and futility of power, prestige, and pleasure apart from God. The answer to true fulfillment in life is found in accepting all that comes in life as "from the hand of God" (2:24). The conclusion of the book is to fear God and keep His commandments. That is the entirety of the book.
Therefore, "under the sun" has nothing to do with when a person dies...it has everything to do with how you live.