Christains told me that killing babies is fine
It was a time when I was still a believer, but I was already questoning some things that didn's seem quite right.
One day I asked my christian friends about a hypotethical scenario:
"Let's say that a nation of Muslims invaded us, killed us all, along with women and children, and spared only virgins to make them their slaves. They would claim that Allah gave our land to them and they had the divine right to do what they did."
I asked my friends "If they really believed they had permission from Allah, would it make it okay?"
"Of course it wouldn't be okay, "They all said. "That would be a horrible act and nothing ever would make it okay!"
"Okay, so now take a similar sutuation from the Book of Joshua: God brought the Israelites to the promised land, but that land was already inhabited by many nations. God commanded his people to perform genocide, kill all men women and children and keep only the virgins for themselves. And then take over all their possessions and land.
So, according tho the bible, the Israelites believed they have permission from God to kill people and steal all their stuff. Was that okay?"
I was struggling with this question myself and I had a real problem to make a clear judgment. That's why I wanted to hear what my friends will say.
And I was shocked how quickly they started defending the Israelites and finding reasons upon reasons to justify their actions. They had no problem with killing women, children, unborn babies and enslaving little girls as sex slaves.
"If God told them to do it, they must have deserved it! Thay had to be a horrible nation! Good riddance!"
"But what about the children and the babies? And the unborn ones?" Were they also horrible people?
"They would surely become horrible people, if God had allowed them to grow up! It was just a matter of time!"
And then they started to look up scriptures for passages that would confirm that victims of that genocide had it coming. They had no second thoughts, no doubts. They all believed that this genocide really happened, and they had no sympathy for the victims. Just because it was their God who did it.
But I wanted to be sure and one day I asked a Christian mother, a wife of a pastor, what would she do if she was standing in Abraham's place.
"Imagine if you were there instead of Abraham, and God would ask you to kill your child and burn it's corpse. Would you do what Abraham did? Would you kill your baby or allowed somebody else do it, just because God told you so?"
And I could say she was thinking about it, but she wasn't able to say that she would not kill her child.
This situation made me pretty sure it was time to say goodbye to Jesus and faith and church and shit.
Christains. Those who claim moral superiority over rest of the world. Boasting of their divine revelation about what is objectively and absolutely good and bad.
And yet, they are not able to condemn holy wars, genocide, infanticide or even slavery.
My own wife, admitted that she supports what the Israelites did. I wanted to also ask her about what Abraham did, and if she would do the same. If we had a child, and God asked her to kill it. What would she do?
I never asked her that question though. I'm too afraid she might actually answer. And I don't think I'm rady to face what would have to happen afterwards.
Right now I'm just happy that we don't have any chidren. I'm so fucking relieved.
Interesting post and I understand your logic. But when you trust someone it's different. If God told you to sacrifice your child you would not do it. Abraham did it, because he trusted Him. He trusted because he knew God. Another case, imagine you're fixing electricity in your house. You tell your wife to switch off main power supply which is in another room. A while after she is shouting it's done. You have no problem to start fixing power plug because you trust her. Electricity can also kill you. Problem is when people trust bad people and sick people who don't know God think that they hear from Him.
Oh yeah? So you think you can trust god? Are you saying that Abraham did a good thing? Are you saying that you would do the same if you were him? That's what you're saying? Okay wise guy. I will think about what you said if you ditch the religious lingo and just say this again, but with normal words in one sentence loud and clear, so there is no mistake about it. I dare you to reply to this post and write: "I TRUST MY GOD, THAT'S WHY I HEREBY DECLARE TO BE WILLING TO MURDER MY OWN CHILDREN IF MY GOD EVER TELLS ME SO!" Here, you have the chance to declare your trust and your ultimate faith! Show me and the whole world what it means to believe! Your god will be so proud of you! And your family too! Share the gospel of love! Show me that you really believe what you just said! I will reconsider my beliefs, if you only say it! I dare you! I fucking dare you!
No, you still don't get it. What you're writing is proof of madness. What Abraham did was proof of his obedience, trust, faith and humility. And he did it with a heavy heart. It was not: "Cool, God ask me to sacrifice my only son, let's do it. I was waiting for that". He understood the authority of God. And his promises. If you read more about his story you can see that his only son was given him by God's promise. And also he was promised to have great nation from his son. So he trusted God will do something great. When people are doing the same thing it's not always the same thing. Even this story shows great love of God because he spared Abraham's son (although he tested his obediance) and he gave His own Son Jesus to save us as a sacrifice for our sins. You need more wisdom brother, your thinking is too harsh. Word of God (Bible) is great source of true wisdom but you need to read it in humble position, not with prejudice.
Yes, it is a proof of madness. and by your own admission Abraham was a mad man, because he did exactly that. he trusted God so he was willing to murder his own child when God told him to. Is it proof of obedience? Don't give new this crap that he was "just" obedient. No he was not only obedient but also attempted to murder his own child with a knife. Don't you realize that you can be both obedient, faithful and pants on head insane? The point is, you have already condemned Abraham, you just didn't realize it.
Things we don't understand seems to us often like madness. It's quite natural and understandable. When understanding increase, these issues are resolved. For example when God commanded Israeli people to kill certain tribes, it didn't comply my idea of loving God. It took me about 20 years until I get proper understanding about this and why it happened. But if I was prejudiced I would never understood this because I would stayed in ignorance of "my own knowledge and opinion". Fortunately I just said, I don't understand and hopefull God will give me understanding later. God's knowledge is ultimate and his ways are perfect. But our understanding is not.
And you are the one who is prejudiced. When I see a man that needs to be stopped , because he is about to slit his little boy's throat, it's not prejudice to assume that there is something horribly wrong with him. You are prejudiced becasue you ASSUME that it was all cool so you INVENT scenarios that would fit your narrative. I repeat: Make a statement that if you were Abraham, you would also make an attempt to murder your own child. If you don't do it, than you admit that what God asked Abraham to do and what he agreed to was hideous and immoral.
You'd do good if you try to stop any man to protect his child because it's according to your best conscience about what is good in such a situation. No one would blame you. Yes, Abraham's case was special and extreme. If someone tries to do it, it will be in 99,99% wrong thing and horrible deed. It's always difficult to judge without knowing a complete pictutre. You can be right in 99,99% cases but it doesn't mean that you're always right.