RE: 20 Minute Blog a Day - Weapons of Mass Debating
LOL @amariespeaks, I like the WMD theme here :)
(My 2p's worth): In my experience, providing supporting materials and solid, illustrated arguments, works when the emotional body has not been triggered as such (in either interlocutor). If it has, then reason and logic are out of the window and what is under discussion is something other than the overtly stated subject, rendering proofs irrelevant to perception, and triggering internal resistance. This resistance is different from, and nothing much to do with the topic of discussion (personal vs impersonal). This can be frustrating on both sides and often difficult to pin-point (esp when triggered!)...I have certainly, myself, been closed to such demonstrations of logical points in the past - my state then would've been variously anger, sadness/self-pity, confusion, insecurity etc etc, and this swirling self-refective state would dilute any real engagement with the subject at hand, or how it was being presented - I guess I just wasn't fully present on those occasions (ask my ex-wife, or my mum :).
Also, at a subtle level, the energy of trying to convince carries a lot of triggers for sensitive people - comes across as control (and automatically triggers a resistance response), IMO. This leads to a further choice - insist on being right (fight); or see that it is not about you or your 'subject' (compassion).
That said, I'm not sure how this might apply to someone playing Devil's advocate :), and umm, the closness of the life-long relationship would suggest (to my mind) that there may also be elements of conditioning, and the playout of learned/habitual family emotional patterns and energies here (??).
Lastly, Jiddu Krishnamurti described the difference between a 'debate' and an 'enquiry' a bit like this: a debate is between (two) parties who are right, and are trying to convince the other. Each party 'knows' that they are right. An enquiry is between (two) parties whose starting point is 'I don't know, let's find out'. IMO, one approach seems more open to knowledge sharing and advancement than the other!
I also agree completely with what you say:
I truly believe most people have common morality no matter who/where you are. There are natural laws in our universe and when sane, sovereign, good people look at the same facts then almost always come to the same conclusions - especially on moral issues.
Namaste
thank you for your wonderful comment! I have to say, I know exactly what you mean about trying to convince people.. I've tried to come abandon this intention completely. and you're so right about debates triggering people and it turns in an emotional argument that is not even about the actual topics. I finally understand that people's reactions are more about how they think and feel than anything else.
It's freeing to realize you can never make anyone think anything :) love the Krishnamurti thought too. thank you for that!
Namaste my friend :)
I've mentioned before that I remind myself daily:- 'The ability to be free is the ability to grant others the ability to be free.'
Their arguments do not persuade you¿ Your angst is aroused; perhaps you are wrong you ask yourself, a doubt¿ Your emotional response raises the angst of you both further. Are they wrong¿ Am I wrong¿ No, I am correct, I will just pressure my beliefs to look like facts, and he will, believe. Oh, no, he replies in like manner. The volume increases. My persuasion isn't working, but I know I'm Right!
--ability:- the power or capacity to do something.
--be:- verb (sing.present am; are; is; pl.present are; 1st and 3rd sing.past was; 2nd sing.past subjunctive were; present part. being; past part been)
--free:- adjective (freer, freest) 1.able to do what one wants; not under the control of anyone else 2. not confined, obstructed, or fixed et.c
--grant:-verb 1. agree to give something to someone or allow them to do something.
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--So, where is the argument [heated exchange of conflicting views]? Once one has said one's point, and possibly responded to a differ by explaining one's reasons, then it's over. If they are adult, they might agree to differ, or reflect on and possibly agree with your reasons, or possibly reflect on and disagree, with their causes lined up. If you are adult and listen to their reasons for differing, you might find an agreement or cause to disagree, but throughout, the rendering of opinion and fact, the point of view of each will very rarely change if emotion is entered into by either party. Emotion is about feelings, and however one swears, facts are put aside to opinions within emotion. Time is often needed for persuasion, because the reasons must be pondered and reflected upon in each their own manner. So truth is always the root from which the tree grows and very often the fruit shown one, has been too long from the tree and no longer has relevant truth within.
--Turquoise colour is blue, no¿ turquoise colour is green¿ Ok, That is the blue of a Mexican stone of Turquoise and That is the Teal or sea blue of a summer sky reflected on white sand. People will see what they see, and your pointing out incorrectness, is your own inner censor deciding what you believe. We can allow others the ability to be free, easily, once we stop using such words in our inner dialogue as should, must, et.c, especially trying to impose those words upon others. One has plenty enough to do working on one's own balance. Changing the outside world happens, as much as one changes one's own inner world.
Keep on keeping on. 😇
ahhh yes, an there is the struggle LOL life is a learning process - more than I ever allowed myself to imagine before. Now as I get older and understand more I'm realizing it is truly only about that inner dialogue you have with yourself.
This is my newest Mt. Everest - I'm making the climb and starting to gain a new view.. Your World is exactly how You Perceive it, you and you alone. What you think/feel/believe is then reflected back at you... However knowing is only the beginning - the true struggle is in the application ;-)
😉
Hints for Subconscious Command. #0193 first, then '94,'97. Create one's own lesson on a CD for playback when driving. Important to pick upbeat music for mask, as that engages the frontal lobe, and you sing or tap, along. The commands one gives oneself are not heard aloud, but just beneath the outer noise. For a good laugh, go bathroom alone, and look at self in the eye and use these commands with different faces. Crack up 😂
LOL oh boy! now I'm gonna have to try this out haha
Enjoy yourself! 😇