Andreas Antonopoulos Sees Separation of Money and State, using Bitcoin and Blockchain; Perils of a Centralized Cashless Society (Podcast Show Notes)
Show Notes for podcast
by A. Horrigan
30-Jan-2018
These are show notes from a live interview with Andreas Antonopoulos, conducted by Jim Motavalli and Alice Horrigan and broadcast on WPKN radio on January 23, 2018. Listen to the podcast here.
At first blush, bitcoin appeared to be something for gamblers, says Andreas Antonopoulos, one of the most well-known and respected technologists in bitcoin and author of Mastering Bitcoin and The Internet of Money.
But half way through reading the original bitcoin white paper, he realized the technology is “something very special, very unique, very innovative.” That was in 2012, and now Antonopoulos spends full time educating a wide range of audiences on the subject.
In an interview that was broadcast on WPKN radio (Bridgeport, CT) January 23, show host Jim Motavalli and I ask Antonopoulos if a payment system with no central authority in charge is perhaps a scary proposition.
“Not really. There are many decentralized things we use on a daily basis,” he responds. “ If you ask, ‘Who owns the internet?’ Well, no one owns the internet…and that’s the beauty of it.” Growing up in Greece, Antonopoulous experienced the ”failings of central authority” repeatedly. “And that kind of informs my attitude.”
Decentralized Organizations: A New Model
The bitcoin protocol, which many call a “decentralized blockchain,” enables the creation of businesses and organizations with decentralized control.
Bitcoin’s consensus algorithm is one feature that enables this decentralization, allowing everyone on the network to “arrive at a common picture of what the truth is.” After a period of time it “gets increasingly hard to change that truth,” notes Antonopoulos. If you record something on the bitcoin blockchain it is almost impossible to modify. This feature is called “immutability.”
“It’s never happened before—the idea that you could have a digital record, but that digital record is written in stone.” This provides a big advantage for financial transactions because it “ensures that you have finality” and will be able to trust transactions as weighty as purchasing a home.
Antonopoulos isn’t sure whether blockchain technology will replace banks, but “some technology based on some form of a very decentralized digital system that is very similar to a blockchain” likely will. “There are some functions that you can’t replace—probably.”
The payments industry, which transmits value from place to place, is “a patchwork of antiquated networks with onerous regulations, very high cost, very slow, very insecure, and it doesn’t serve the world’s population very well. That’s going to be replaced.”
Perils of a Cashless Society that is Centralized
How is bitcoin different from a “cashless society,” which we’re increasingly hearing about?
“We’re at a crossroads,” says Antonopoulos, “and one way or another, within the next decade or two, cash is going to gradually disappear everywhere in the world.”
This is a radical departure from history, he notes: “We will no longer have what has been for thousands of years, direct, peer-to-peer, no-transaction-fee, untraceable, money that allows people to pay people, without having to use a corporation or government intermediary for every transaction.”
The path of centralized digital cash is dangerous, says Antonopoulos. “To me, that’s a terrifying possibility, the idea that we give centralized control” over everybody’s money. This is “a power that should not be given to governments.”
A Social Movement
Antonopoulos and many bitcoin enthusiasts believe in the separation of money and state, in the same way liberal democracies separate church and state. “When you have collusion between the two, it leads to bad things on both sides,” he says. “When money gets involved in politics it disrupts politics and when politics gets involved in money it politicizes money and disrupts commerce.”
While separation of money and state may seem like a radical notion now, Antonopoulos believes it will “become a common sense concept.” Already the notion is embraced in countries that lack benign governments, healthy banking, and freedom of speech. The people in those countries say, “We get it, because we cannot trust our governments with that much power.”
Bitcoin isn’t just a cryptocurrency and model for business decentralization, but it’s also a social movement aimed at changing the equations of power. “There is a strong ideological element” among the proponents of bitcoin, says Antonopoulos. Many in the community are opposed to a financial system where regulators essentially work for the regulated and “perhaps so do the politicians that appoint them.”
Financial institutions wield extraordinary political power: “They can commit felony-level crimes like forging signatures on mortgage foreclosure documents by the millions and not a single person goes to jail, while someone on the streets of New York selling cigarettes gets strangled to death.”
“That kind of thing eventually causes societies to reposition their priorities.”
Although there is an ideological component to bitcoin, Antonopoulos doesn’t see a “specific partisan political perspective to it: “The bottom line is that this technology gives us fast, secure money that is open to everyone.”
About the Show
Jim Motavalli is a widely known freelance journalist, speaker, book author, radio personality and expert on all things environmental. He blogs weekly for The New York Times, Mother Nature Network, BNET and The Daily Green, is a regular contributor to The New York Times’ "Automobiles" section, and has a weekly syndicated "Wheels" column.
Alice Horrigan is a creative content manager specializing in blockchain technology, with a background in journalism, business and IT communications, and a master's degree in sociology. She recently started blogging about blockchain and cryptocurrency on Steemit.
WPKN is a 10,000-watt non-commercial, listener-supported radio station founded in 1963. The station serves a potential listenership of 1.5 million in Connecticut, Long Island, and parts of New York and Massachusetts. Programs include music and alternative information, in an eclectic mix of free-form programming that seeks to serve those whose needs are not met by mainstream media in a unique and vibrant way.
Listen to the full podcast interview with Andreas Antonopoulos.
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I've been thinking a lot about decentralization lately. Thanks for sharing this interview.
Thanks @Matthewdavid !