Not going to happen, you just have to take a look at the Christians vs atheists debates... They start really good with lots of interesting philosophical arguments, then it's down to a myriad of insults from one side to another... I wrote it in another comment, I think that there's not helping this outcome since faith is not a subject to be debated, it's meant to be believed, felt, embraced... or not. Hence, there's no middle point about it.
I don't particularly disagree with you joelsegovia... I'll just point out that 100% of that comment I wrote above was meant as a joke.
To me the whole thing is rediculous. Hence the joking. Why people would argue, let alone kill each other, over ideological differences has baffled me all of my life.
I have the same mindset about reliegion-based conflicts... It would be awesome if someone involved in such a conflict could state how is it exactly that people with different ideas about faith is a threaten against its own...
Because, let's assume that certain subject is right and a particular God-like entity does exist, as far as I know at most beleivers are asked to try to convince other people... If people just don't listen then it's the God-like entity's business. There's no need to go and hate, fight, etc the unfaithful ones.
let's assume that certain subject is right and a particular God-like entity does exist, as far as I know at most believers are asked to try to convince other people... If people just don't listen then it's the God-like entity's business. There's no need to go and hate, fight, etc then unfaithful ones.
I think you've hit on one of the key points of how/why more and bloody murder has been perpetuated in the name of religion, than any other mechanism of thought human-kind has ever envisioned.
It's the 'my god is right, your god is wrong' attitude and the political machinations of corrupt people and systems within religions that perpetuate this idea.
It would be awesome if someone involved in such a conflict could state how is it exactly that people with different ideas about faith is a threaten against its own.
Yeah, I agree. But I don't think they ever would. Some of them are genuinely sociopaths, I.E. they enjoy being part of the chaos, pain and suffering caused by demonizing one group of people based on a differing belief system. Others, are simply so emotionally invested in being part of the church/mosque/temple that they become blind to the pain, and indoctrinated, by those who benefit from causing and perpetuating conflict among religions. It's politics!
When you take the church, mosque, temple... whatever you want to call the centralized seat of power for all the major religions out of the equation, what you usually have (in all religions) is a bunch of people who believe in a set of simple rules they live their life by. Love and compassion for your fellow man, charity etc. Many of the tenants are very similar across the religious systems, yet people are herded toward a doctrine of separation.
I'm an atheist/agnostic but I recognize the FACT that the vast majority of religious folks are good people simply trying to live their lives as best they can.
I have got a problem with the more aggressive people of any religion that are all about converting as many people as possible, mainly because I see them as egotistical to assume I (or anyone else) haven't looked at various religions with an open mind and come to my choices through considered education and thought. But even in these cases, what is the point in getting angry or combative with those guys lol, for me kindness, understanding and love are the universal commodities that we can all share. If someone is annoying me by trying to force their views/beliefs on me, I find it's constructive to remove myself from their company but offer them understanding rather than aggression when I have to deal with them.
The main thing that makes me laugh when I encounter jehovah's witnesses knocking on my door, or Mormons tapping my shoulder on the bus is that they so often can't grasp why I don't feel the need to debate with them, and in some cases become pretty annoyed. It just doesn't interest me. Usually the offence is taken on their side, because you are somehow wrong in not listening and acknowledging their faith. This is an insane view point. There is no need to acknowledge faith, people either have it or they don't. Faith by it's very nature is personal. It's like me going around knocking on church doors hassling worshipers to acknowledged that god doesn't exist (only my opinion)... I would never do that because... you know.... live and let live. I respect everyone's right to their choices unless they are causing violence to people not in self defense.
At the end of the day as you say here:
There's no need to go and hate, fight, etc then unfaithful ones.
My choice to not believe in any god is my choice, and your (I assume) choice to believe in a higher power is your choice... there is no need to fight about it. That's a truly pointless argument.
I'm a scientist so I tend to follow the evidences , but science also has some kind of faith in its core, which is that somehow we can perceive at least portions of "the reality", and that this "reality" and the laws it follows is somehow objective and independent of the particular mindset of the person observing it... This ontologic principle is, as far as I understand, not possible to demonstrate since its demonstration has an inherent paradox within.
Religion and the shape it has given to human society across hundred of years is another story. To me it's more like a cultural manifestation of the Human society as as whole, an intrinsic part of each human group.
By the way, it's not that I believe or not in superior entities. The thing is that I think that "facts" do exist (but we might be wrong about this one ) and that I am unaware of the vast majority of them. That's my phylosophycal stand about live.
😆 break out the 'life of Brian' quotes cause steemchurch will throw down on these heathens... of course I joke too.
Hopefully steem can be a bastion for moderate debate and friendly discussion between people with differing opinions... 🤣
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Not going to happen, you just have to take a look at the Christians vs atheists debates... They start really good with lots of interesting philosophical arguments, then it's down to a myriad of insults from one side to another... I wrote it in another comment, I think that there's not helping this outcome since faith is not a subject to be debated, it's meant to be believed, felt, embraced... or not. Hence, there's no middle point about it.
I don't particularly disagree with you joelsegovia... I'll just point out that 100% of that comment I wrote above was meant as a joke.
To me the whole thing is rediculous. Hence the joking. Why people would argue, let alone kill each other, over ideological differences has baffled me all of my life.
Posted using Partiko Android
Thank you for the nice discussion @joelsegovia & @raj808 👍
I enjoyed reading it 😃
Glad you like it, hoping to get the chance to read your content and engage with some of the folks who write about this topic
🙂👍
I have the same mindset about reliegion-based conflicts... It would be awesome if someone involved in such a conflict could state how is it exactly that people with different ideas about faith is a threaten against its own...
Because, let's assume that certain subject is right and a particular God-like entity does exist, as far as I know at most beleivers are asked to try to convince other people... If people just don't listen then it's the God-like entity's business. There's no need to go and hate, fight, etc the unfaithful ones.
I think you've hit on one of the key points of how/why more and bloody murder has been perpetuated in the name of religion, than any other mechanism of thought human-kind has ever envisioned.
It's the 'my god is right, your god is wrong' attitude and the political machinations of corrupt people and systems within religions that perpetuate this idea.
Yeah, I agree. But I don't think they ever would. Some of them are genuinely sociopaths, I.E. they enjoy being part of the chaos, pain and suffering caused by demonizing one group of people based on a differing belief system. Others, are simply so emotionally invested in being part of the church/mosque/temple that they become blind to the pain, and indoctrinated, by those who benefit from causing and perpetuating conflict among religions. It's politics!
When you take the church, mosque, temple... whatever you want to call the centralized seat of power for all the major religions out of the equation, what you usually have (in all religions) is a bunch of people who believe in a set of simple rules they live their life by. Love and compassion for your fellow man, charity etc. Many of the tenants are very similar across the religious systems, yet people are herded toward a doctrine of separation.
I'm an atheist/agnostic but I recognize the FACT that the vast majority of religious folks are good people simply trying to live their lives as best they can.
I have got a problem with the more aggressive people of any religion that are all about converting as many people as possible, mainly because I see them as egotistical to assume I (or anyone else) haven't looked at various religions with an open mind and come to my choices through considered education and thought. But even in these cases, what is the point in getting angry or combative with those guys lol, for me kindness, understanding and love are the universal commodities that we can all share. If someone is annoying me by trying to force their views/beliefs on me, I find it's constructive to remove myself from their company but offer them understanding rather than aggression when I have to deal with them.
The main thing that makes me laugh when I encounter jehovah's witnesses knocking on my door, or Mormons tapping my shoulder on the bus is that they so often can't grasp why I don't feel the need to debate with them, and in some cases become pretty annoyed. It just doesn't interest me. Usually the offence is taken on their side, because you are somehow wrong in not listening and acknowledging their faith. This is an insane view point. There is no need to acknowledge faith, people either have it or they don't. Faith by it's very nature is personal. It's like me going around knocking on church doors hassling worshipers to acknowledged that god doesn't exist (only my opinion)... I would never do that because... you know.... live and let live. I respect everyone's right to their choices unless they are causing violence to people not in self defense.
At the end of the day as you say here:
My choice to not believe in any god is my choice, and your (I assume) choice to believe in a higher power is your choice... there is no need to fight about it. That's a truly pointless argument.
All the best :)
I'm a scientist so I tend to follow the evidences , but science also has some kind of faith in its core, which is that somehow we can perceive at least portions of "the reality", and that this "reality" and the laws it follows is somehow objective and independent of the particular mindset of the person observing it... This ontologic principle is, as far as I understand, not possible to demonstrate since its demonstration has an inherent paradox within.
Religion and the shape it has given to human society across hundred of years is another story. To me it's more like a cultural manifestation of the Human society as as whole, an intrinsic part of each human group.
By the way, it's not that I believe or not in superior entities. The thing is that I think that "facts" do exist (but we might be wrong about this one ) and that I am unaware of the vast majority of them. That's my phylosophycal stand about live.
Thank you for the warm welcome @acidyo 😃