Is Haejln Rewarded too much on Steemit?
For anyone living in a cave, there is an argument going on Steemit for the last few months.
Haejln is the Steemian at the heart of this argument.
Many have ducked their heads and tried to ignore it (me too most of the time).
Many have looked at the parties involved and thought maybe "he" is being picked on by "that" jerk.
Many have looked at the numbers and thought... That is INSANE! No Steemian deserves that WEEK after WEEK, Month after Month (me here... for the most part).
Let's have a look at the current numbers:
Actually... I noticed this just now, but saw it 2 days ago when I first looked. Steemnow is missing the last day or half day: 5 posts and over $1000 are not displayed in the total.
AND this is AFTER 5 more posts have been flagged into $0.00 value. That would have been another $1000. But I will overlook those, since some pity upvotes may have come in on other posts to counteract that.
SO, over $11,000 in potential rewards... minimum of 75% go to the Poster (more than 75% since he 100% upvotes all of his own posts. His curation rewards will take in another 5% maybe. Also... going to ignore this for my calculations.)
11,000 X 75% = $8250.00
To get the SBD we divide it by two: 8250/2 = 4125 SBD
to get the Steem that goes directly to SP we divide the 4125 by 3.48 (Market price of STEEM) 4125/3.48 = 1,185 STEEM
Again, this is a 7 day projection.
Assuming the Steem and SBD prices stay the same, the estimated earnings for 7 days would be:
4,125 X $4.00 = $16,500
1,185 X $3.48 = $4,125
Total = $20,625.00 PER WEEK
If that happened to be carried for a whole year, that is:
$1,072,500 for creating 10+ charts a day that are for entertainment purposes only and may actually lead someone to loose money.
Now.... if Haejln did not ask for this windfall wealth, and Ranch0relax0 just decided to adopt him from the goodness of his heart, that is amazing for Haejln.
However, if that was the case, why wouldn't Haejln share the wealth, at least after the first week or two weeks of these AMAZING Rewards, and give out 100% of HIS upvotes to others. OR delegate to healthy-home or utopian.io or curie or anything????
IF Haejln did not buy these votes through some deal outside of Steem. And if Haejln is not Ranch0Relax0, then the real "trouble maker" is Ranch0Relax0. He is rewarding one Steemian with a share of the Reward Pool, that, for most Steemit investors' sensibilities is considered excessive.
One important or great post at $1000 is not generally seen as excessive. But a daily production of $2000+ for week on week on week IS!!
"But he is doing nothing wrong. If the system lets him earn so much, it must be fine. If there is a problem, then put a cap in the coding."
That is not how Steemit works. It is an open and semi-anarchist system. If some limit was written into the code, a real schemer would just find a way to circumvent it. And these limits would just work to hurt Real Rewarding of Amazing Posts when they do come around.
So, is Haejln being bullied by those that are flagging these high paying posts? No. Read the first Reason given for flagging:
.
The first reason is: "I have x much SP and I disagree with the rewards this post is getting" It is the FIRST reason. Could you abuse that reason, be jealous, be a jerk, etc?? Sure. But Flagging is a generous act because you are GIVING UP rewards that you would otherwise be awarding to yourself, your friends, and amazing posts of others. And you give up any curation rewards also. Flagging can be a VERY sacrificial act.
NOW.... Steemit is a flawed platform full of flawed people. So, I agree that the UGLINESS that has ensued in this "Flag War" so far is deplorable. One particular strong whale gets rude, obnoxious and vulgar. Of these behaviors, I do not approve!!!!!
However, I think something must be done. Ranch0Relax0 is the true trouble maker here. As far as I know, he/she/it has not spoken up a single time. He/She/It has not given a single vote to other deserving Steemians. He/She/It has allowed this disagreement to continue for months now, slowly poisoning the mood and emotions of many involved and of observing steemians. This lack of involvement and peace making is DEPLORABLE!!!
And secondly, this could all be water under the bridge already if Haejln had simply condensed his posts into an average of 5 or less per day. As fat and glutinous as that still would have been, 5 or less would have been acceptable....more or less. Or if he gave out/away 75% of his own votes to his post's commenters, and other deserving Posts. That would have gone a long way as well. But neither have shown community positive behaviour. So now it has come to this.
A kind and generous Steemian, @fulltimegeek, that has proven his love of the Steemit platform, has decided to take a stand HERE.
And I believe I will join the call to flag as requested by my friend here.
Should I join? Should you? I think minnows should play a part. And I think this has been draining from the community rewards for long enough. But each will have to decide for themselves. I am sure there will be a lot of hurt feelings following the new stage of the flagging initiative. And perhaps many hurt accounts as well. But if you disagree with the Porportion and Size of the rewards Haejln is taking.... it is in your power and right to flag these over rewarded posts as well.
Just for comparison let's look at @papa-pepper. He is an equally active/prolific poster, who has been responsible for encouraging and keeping a greater number of Steemians active on Steemit. I am told it is probable that my friend, would have abandoned Steemit had it not been for his interaction on one of @papa-pepper's games. And then, I only joined Steemit because of this friend.
So, again, @papa-pepper posts often. Interacts with his commenters. Provides useful information. Encourages new Steemians. Upvotes himself less than 10% (ergo gives out 90% of his upvotes!!!) AND earns a partial living from Steemit income. And his Rewards from the Reward Pool amount to only 10% of those of HaejIn!!! And he has been contributing for 6 months or a year longer than Haejln joined the platform.
You will need 100% support
Watchout 1.3 Million VP is going to hit this post
Both are the same person.
Thank you, yes it will be no fun if I get a huge flag. That would be painful.
I just hope that the community continues to rally and this becomes something organic and strong and seeking to protect the Steemit platform!
Thx
Not our cup of tea.
We are into Curation.
Occasionally, we will cleanup some spillage.
What we find!
Yes, I do completely understand that. As it should be. The community still needs curation and encouragement!! Carry on your wonderful work!!
Thx
Ranx and hae are one same account!
The only person that can stop it is Ned.
But Ned doesn’t cares!
Don’t try to be hero!
Let Ned know about it.
Community should sign a petition!
Agreed. If my good friend @Adept was still here on this earth, He likely would have got through to @ned. @adept was recently hired on the Steemit.com Team. Unfortunately he more recently passed away. Bless his soul.
Yet a petition may very well do wonders for all of us. I only have about 350 SP lol. Not much at all. A True minnow at that. But I upvote others all the time. I do also upvote myself to. I do not have much but I do have Heart.
Haejin and rancho are not the same person.
Thank you for writing this post and help continue to spread the word and share the facts. Haejin and Ranchorelaxo must be stopped!
I am there with you! Together we will stop the abuse!!
Thx
I am here and I will do what I can to help!
Haha! You can't do anything!! But thanks for offering!!!
Peace
I can't believe it was 3 weeks since I did this post. And still no solution. I know many have quit the flag initiative. I also that many "innocent" accounts have been hurt on both sides. It really isn't good for Steemit.
I keep trying to comeup with a solution or something constructive to post about... but all I have are these thoughts.
Thx
8 months later and still the scammers arent fully dealt with. It seems some are not willing to sacrifice their piece of the pie to help the whole or greater good.
"Enacting and utilizing a component of Steemit THAT IS ALREADY written into the code to curb and deter abuse of the Reward system."
This is the heart. I hate the idea of flag wars. But this does need to be done!
I have considered getting involved. It's a tricky situation to get wrapped up in. But this dilemma could possibly trickle down and be consequential for the entire Steemit platform.
Maybe.
IT will. If haejln alone was the one doing it... maybe only have a slow sucking effect. But if another rich scammer out there sees haejln success, then they will also come to the steem platform to do the exact same trouble. It will crush Steemit into dust and ashes for sure. We must all play our little part. Checkout @anomadsoul's post https://steemit.com/mmorpg/@anomadsoul/every-quest-needs-a-cleric-or-slay-the-cave-troll-healers-needed
or wait for the good whales to start flagging. after they do, it should be safe to join in.
I am new to this debate today. All I have read is this post, so I definitely don’t have the full story. It’s too early for me to take sides.
In response to the last comment:
I don’t see how a “scammer” could do the same thing? Wouldn’t the “scammer” need about $5 million of capital. Ok, the 25% to 40% return would be enticing but I don’t quite see how a good investment is a scam.
On reflection, maybe he is breaking some rule? I think I read once that you are not allowed to post more than 4 times a day? Not sure why that rule exists?
I am not defending or attacking anyone here. I am just trying to get clarity on whether this is a scam (“fraudulent or deceitful behaviour designed to trick innocent victims into handing over their cash”), or cheating, (not following the rules), or just bad social etiquette (like not picking up your dog-poo).
I would answer that like this:
It is a little of cheating and a lot of bad etiquitte.
Steem, like every crypto can be bought in speculation for a rise in the market price of Steem. The platform however, is to be used to reward quality content. The whale that is providing 90% of haejins Rewards is not voting on quality content, but only voting on Haejin. No doubt some of haejins content is ok. Some maybe decent. And occasionally a post or two may be exceptional. But RR is not upvoting it in that way. Instead, RR is upvoting each of Haejins posts at 100%. If Haejin posted once a day he would get 1 100% upvote. If he posts 10 times then he gets 10 100% upvotes. Quality is not being used to determine the upvote.
This flies in the face of the intent of the platform, and it is not sustainable.
Steem IS unique in that you can hold a crypto AND that crypto can be leveraged with original content production to produce a reward. So speculating and being rewarded for participation on the platform. But it is not meant to be used as a "money machine."
That is the probable justification for having "Reason #1" for flagging is "disagreement on rewards". So that quality can be rewarded 'fairly.'
There is a lot of flexibility in the interpretation of 'a fair amount of rewards' and I and everyone that is flagging Haejin believe that his rewards are very FAR EXCEDING their worth.
If 10 whales were rewarding him about $150/post....and sometimes far less...othertimes far more, and they testified that his technical analysis was earning them thousands or millions in crypto trades....then it would be a harder debate.
Even still, in the above "10 whale" scenario, it would be more appropriate to do half or so of their "rewarding" of Haejin for his technical wizardry through direct crypto gifts, not by taking out huge sums from the community reward pool. The reward pool is for everyone and must be managed like a communal water supply.....not all redirected by one or 5 farmers.
That is my understanding and opinion.
Maybe @public-eye will see it or explain it differently!!
No, I think you said it correctly. The problem for most people is they see blockchain and Steem as a "programmed system" and so if you can do something, it must be okay. But it isn't that simple. Just because you can find a way to "work the system" doesn't mean that it is "okay" or permissable or beneficial.
Just like corporate tax codes. Many big companies paid lobbyists to write complicated tax codes that they could navigate and benefit from. And it got passed or adopted as law or federal code. This doesn't mean that it is fine for them to pay 50% less tax that a small business, but that is normally the case! They worked the system.
In Steemit, it isn't affected by this lobbyist situation, but Steemit is clearly a community system. And a consensus based system. The upvotes are supposed to show consensus. But when 90% of the posts upvote comes from two accounts, that can't be counted as consensus.
And in fact, it is a common complaint about more whales than these in question. Many times an account or the posts of an account are heavily upvoted by only one or two whales, and some then think that what is happening is wrong. But if it wasn't done this way, then few "rich" people would ever invest in Steem for the purpose of Powering Up. They do it for the increased value or strength of their upvote.
Thanks so much for clarifying this for me. If he is going to be downvoted anyway, what is the point of him producing long and complicated posts? He could just write “I like pasta” and vote that, as I think was done by one of his enemies.
In this case the “self-voting” seems blatant, but where dies one draw the line? How much is too much?
Do we have the right to say “Big investors must behave differently from what is very common practice by the small guy”? Isn’t it a dangerous path towards communism?
I think this is the last time I wrote such a long comment. It is nearly a Post itself.
I began to write a reply on your post @public-eye, but saw this comment and wanted to jump in here. What you say is all true, and I've been on @fulltimegeek's side since this started, or since he had enough of it all. However, I don't think for minnows or new people to flag is the answer. I do really like the idea of a "healer" instead. A few of us have contributed to @friendsofgondor curation trail. What that means is we give say 3% of our votes that go to this account to help "support" @fulltimegeek. We stay out of the line of fire so to speak, but offer a much more beneficial role. It leaves us with 97% of our own voting power, so you don't notice anything, and in turn we are still doing our part. It's a much "safer" route, especially for those who are small and legitimately afraid to publicly jump into the flagging war. Just a thought, but I totally appreciate what you are doing here, because in the end, it's about getting this platform back to its' intended purpose.
The problem with reward pool abuse is that it seems to be profitable in the short term, but in the long term you decrease the value of your own investments as well.
That's a very slippery slope. Only a few early birds could profit from it. Once it becomes obvious and more people start to join the party, the Steem Powers you have to hold to abuse the reward pool will start to decrease in value as well because of all the abuse.
You will seem to make money via rewards, but you'll start losing it via your Steem Power investment.
(Unless you live in the steemland where you pay your mortgage in steems of course. I've added this, because I heard too many times that the rewards are paid in tokens and therefore Steemit isn't actually losing money.)
Exactly... another user made a comment, and I thought it was worthy of a Post. So I made a new Post....
And that is the main point.... If only 33 whales all did what Haejln is doing, Steemit would be dead in a matter of weeks or months. Done. Fenito!
Because they would draw the Reward Pool down to 0.00, and because no one new would join the platform, everyone would leave, and Steem and Steemit would die.
And since I don't live in Steemland, the actual market worth DOES make a big deal to me!
Thx brother!!
Super clear and explanatory.
Then it should be that haejin is working or being covered by someone from within.
My dad doesn't even make 45K in a year. And he is an engineer! Lol.
I think I will learn to do crypto charts! :-P
Oh I just read this now! That is funny in a sad way really! But engineering is a great job and a great career. But No market analyst should be getting paid 5-10 times what a degree'd engineer is making.
Nevermind that all! But you study hard and do well for yourself. Never you mind this silly stuff going on here on Steemit. You have your whole REAL life ahead of you!
I will don't worry! I am interested in crypto trading. But I'm not going to stake my life on it!
And I'll be back full STEEM come summer time!
I gave him a small flag each day, and he responded with flagging everything I had open.
I don't want to discourage flagging, but my opinion on him is he is a big stake problem.
I fully agree it is just too much.
Yeah. It will not be painless to do this task.
We will do all that we can!
Thank you for taking a stand. You Matter.
If your post gets downvoted it will be healed.
Thank you!
It was a lot of encouragement to see @anomadsoul's post about people helping by "healing" those that get flagged by retaliation flags. I know you, he and many others are there waiting to help!!
Thx
While I was reading from the top to here, I was wondering why you are out on a limb when there are others fighting the same battle. Maybe it is better each fight on their own, so that there is not just one target. Still, the husband of #lyndsaybowes had a good idea. He created a new account and asked all who want to help to delegate some steempower, instead of trying to flag on their own. This way, none of them get damaged in the 'war' while helping.
Here is the post where this is all explained (flagged to death of course)
https://steemit.com/haejin/@hendrix22/my-haejin-update-and-request-for-solution
My best wishes for all of you
You bring up a good point. I wasn't aware of @hendrix22 initiative when I Posted this post.
However, I still see some value in minnows and dolphins joining in and fighting at the ground level. If we actually cast our own flag, it shows that we are in protest of Haejln's actions. If we delegate to someone else... that is not as clear. It looks like just one whale against another whale.
You are right.... I guess it is a risk I am willing to take. Steemit has been a side hobby for me. It has earned me a little Steem and a little I converted into Litecoin to hold some mainstream crypto (my first). IF Haejln is successful in silencing me and any other minnows involved... that will be a sign to me that Haejln has won and Steemit is doomed. WHAT THEN??
Well.... It is coming up on garden planting season.... Gardening is the original crypto currency... Maybe I will just focus all my attention this year on growing the healthiest, biggest garden so far. And feed my family and friends with nutrient rich food. It could be worth as much as $5000 for the year. That is probably more than I would make on Steemit.
I hope Fulltimegeek is successful, and many whales rally to aid. But if Haejln wins, my life will go on.
Now, I have been told that there are many "healers" that will help and heal the reputation of any that are "nuked" by Haejln and his kind. So, just because I get nuked this week, does not mean my life on Steemit is over. We will see. I am being optimistic!
Thanks @arthur.grafo for sharing your advice and concerns!
But haejin and ranchorelaxo have more VP than we do... Posts can't be completely healed.
Those who can stand should attend to the wounded, those who have strength should fight. Then it is declared that a healer I must be.
awesome!! Thanks so much for playing a part as you are able!!!
Have you thought of this from a cultural stand point? As an example, the Chinese have very close, supportive family bonds, but will not help anyone they don't know. This has likely come from living in a dictatorship where you couldn't afford to trust saying the wrong thing to anyone for fear of being imprisoned or worse. So it has likely developed a mentality that you get what you can, however you can, while the going is good, because you don't know how long it will last. Some people don't get the concept of a sharing economy.
Seeing as this is a worldwide platform, not all cultures are going to do things the way we believe they should be done. So are we going to go to war every time something like this comes along?
Flagging, as you say, is not a problem for the right reasons. Was it the descent into name calling that started the retaliation? Or did they feel that they had done nothing wrong within the rules of the site which has allowed for them to make this much money? They could be from a culture that is used to rules and limits being set for them and have no concept of self regulation.
Just some food for thought.
I don't know what culture haejln is from. I have heard he is not Chinese.
I agree 100% that the first one to notice and try to do something is a rude person. His way of "fighting" this problem probably did as much to hurt the effort. Which is why I did not step up earlier.
On the opposite side, @fulltimegeek HAS shown that his is kind, generous and looking to support and grow the Steemit platform. ANd while I can still see how the online Game "WAR" terminology is not the best either, and can turn some off, .......IT IS CATCHY, and maybe what was needed to rally as many as possible in this "FLAGGING INITIATIVE".
Let me ask you, and I know the comparison is unfair, so it is not a comparison.... it is a question about getting involved..... IF you visit another country, and in their culture it is okay to rape women that are alone on the street, would you step in and stop it if you saw this? What if you were visiting that country with your girlfriend and she goes out to buy some wine alone?
My point is only this: just because it may be fine in another culture, doesn't mean that we can't get involved when wrong is being done.
Well now we have multiple perceptions/angles of view... I suggest that it is time to navigate towards a logical and reasonable way to proceed in our actions. Im stating the obvious of coarse. More in reference to the cultural viewpoint made by @life-relearnt and @public-eye. I believe these viewpoints are extremely crucial for us to resolve the situation at hand. Flag War may make things worse off. A petition sent to the Steemit team also @ned seems fair. But also has anyone actually tried to reason with haejin? Maybe we innerstand him first and be supportive to gain a trust?? Some of us make posts direct to his attention in a welcoming manner? Not saying to make a plea or anything. To get in with him and literally become a FRIEND. Coming up with solutions and ideas here lol.
There was an attempt at arbitration, an agreement was made between Haejin and Bernie, the agreement was basically unacceptable to 90% of those who voiced an opinion, but for the sake of a peace it seemed the best we were going to get. The agreement was that Haejin would power up a minimum of 4 of 10 posts per day, showing a commitment to the platform, rather than simply cashing out.
The peace was short lived. Depending on which side you are on, either Bernie broke the peace by goading Haejin, or Haejin broke the peace by doubling down on rewards and taking posts from $200 up to $450 each.
In any event, Haejin and Rancho are not going to be swayed from the rewards outside of being decimating in a flag wars or banned by ned. The latter will not happen, as this is supposed to be a self governing society. This is working exactly the way the system is built. The former is ugly and people will be hurt, and some will leave Steem, but that is how these things are programmed to play out.
Love it or hate it, this is Steem... You either skirt around it, get caught up in it, or get crushed by it.
Yes, again, it would have been nice if a more diplomatic mega whale had entered talks with H and R from the getgo. Maybe it would have went differently (probably not).
But yes, this is Steem. Optimistically hoping that the users rise up and this gets worked out using the flag mechanism that is programmed in.
Thx
Yeah, I see that as a big issue for real. And so far, partly because of the "bad press," there hasn't been a significant rise to put a stop to it.
Hmmm, I see. Well then, I will take no part in any kind of "War" for this. Steemit.com is very promising and to me it is a life investment. Need to up the SP so I can acquire a voting bot and get paid on the daily. And reinvest and do it again and again.
That would be awesome.
I did not perceive the situation as such, until this moment. I know it is a fact many people are not able to see through the eyes of another culture/society. Let alone the person standing next to them lol. What you just stated is highly probable and may be accurate. Thank you for the new angle of perception.
It has, at this point, esculated way beyond the point of turning back and bystanders are getting caught in the cross fire. So I fully understand why FTG it's taking the action he is. The reason I raise the thought is that with the right awareness, this could have been prevented from the start and could be prevented in the future. Like I say, we are a worldwide platform, so these sorts of cultural clashes will continue to appear.
With the analogy of the rape culture, I'll go with that too. If we do our due diligence and make sure we are fully aware of a culture before we put ourselves in a situation which will bring us into conflict with them, then we can choose not to visit a country that rapes in the first place. We can also choose to try and negotiate with them, to see if we can help to make them realise why rape is not the right path, but we are still forewarned and wouldn't send in women to do that negotiating. We can also draw the line in the sand and say that within our culture, if anyone chooses to come here, rape is not tolerated and this is the punishment for it. That is also an invitation for any women who wish to escape that culture.
You can not force change on another, but you can offer your opinions and safe haven for the wronged.
We can't know for certain anyone's culture when online, so the Chinese analogy was just an example as it's a well known period. There are plenty of other cultures that are restrictive and have learnt not to trust.
I can only hope for a good outcome from this event and hope that it doesn't become a loss for Steemit of some accounts that I feel are important to the community on here. I count you among them.
Yes, I think you are right about changing people by force. Even if haejln is forced to change his behaviour here on Steemit, it will be unlikely to have changed him. Only then he would maybe go somewhere else to 'do his thing.'
I wish that a whale HAD greeted haejln and tried to speak to him at the beginning. I don't know. Maybe one or two of the witnesses did. Sometimes these things do happen, but we never see or hear about it.
anyway, I too hope the community is not injured much .....
Thx
I gave a reply to @life-relearnt if you'd like to see it.
That is appreciated thank you.
Response acknowledged.👌